On Episode 10 We will be talking with Carson Whaley who is a Wholesaler and a investor. we will be talking about up coming strategies on how he is finding deals, and what fix and flips he is currently working on.
On how he was going from making 50k at a Dealership
to doing 80k wholesale in his first year
to doing $160k year to date.
This year he will probably close around 175-185,
buying a rental ,and having 35k in equity.
Goal for next year is 300k.
Anyone can do it with the right info and systems
This is for everyone out there who want to know about Metro Detroit Off Market real estate. We will be interviewing people every week and taking questions from everyone in the comments or they can come on video with us. we will post the link in the chat when the LIVE starts for those who want to come on video with us.
If you want to JV with me on any deals in Metro Detroit market Contact me though
E-Mail: RandyBuysHousesMi@gmail.com
Phone: (586) 307-4765
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So real quick before you did that
and your origin story like how did you get into is that he he made an age joke the last time we were I'm
gonna I'm gonna use that kooka
hey how's it going everybody listen we got a great guest today
his name is Carson Whaley I've had him on here before so we've had his origin story how he how he started what he's
doing things like that if you miss that go back it's in one of the previous
episodes that we'd be before this year before we even started naming the the show
but welcome to Real Estate Talk with Randy Stedwell I am Randy Stedwell nice
to meet you if you're new to the show please please do comment let us know
what you think ask any questions you want in the comments so on and so forth so without further a do I'm going to
bring on Carson Carson how you doing what's up man how are you I'm doing alright how are you good awesome
so we have we're actually just talking about your deal you had an Hazel
Park yeah we're doing some comps yeah running some comps and things like that
so is that is that property a in good
condition exterior is in good condition has I mean
not newer but it was before it was tenant occupied it was owner occupied and so he had done
roof face to shop soffit gutters siding all that good stuff the insides just
hasn't been touched in 15 years needs a facelift so just a nice cosmetic rehab
so yeah so so by all means if you're
interested in the Hazel Park area you got his number right there that um you know give him a call but we'll
go into some business strategies and things like that so since the last time we had you on
I think it was back in October yeah I think so yeah how was how's business
going have you changed anything like you know what have you learned and yeah
so I think yeah it was like October when we last met the reason I say that is because that's when I had just moved
down here into Detroit so I mean by by
you know force of my my conditions now yeah I have you know things have changed for business as far as
you know I still do everything out of Genesee County Flint area a little bit down in Oakland Park
obviously with or Oakland or Oakland County obviously at that Hazel Park deal but yeah I would say that you know now
you know I'm a little more strict with what I'm I'm looking at which kind of
forced me to get better at running my numbers strictly just because I don't want to drive up there every single day
you know and just look at every house to look at every house and so yeah it's forced me to get a little better
things too just to be a little more efficient so all right so are you trying to do a
little bit more virtual or just schedule everything
all at once so yeah answer your question
I still look at everything that I buy obviously or wholesale and buy but
um I would say that my process is a little bit different as far as talking to a seller getting a little bit of a
pre-commitment most not most cases I would say 50 50. I will get a contract out of
somebody before I go to the house and if I can't get a contract then I do something called
upfront contracts it's basically just a little bit of commitment from you to know that basically I'm setting the
stage and letting you know I'm going to buy the property not to take a look and get you an offer or let you know what I
think it's worth you know you know if they have anything against that then I don't really go to the house
so yeah so it's basically like you're saying okay based on what you've told me
if everything you said is accurate this is what I can pay yep and most times
it's it's on but sometimes it's off and when it is they can understand because it comes
from a place of well look you know so the furnace was new but it's clearly not new you know it looks to be 15 20 years
old you know we're gonna adjust accordingly from there you know yeah
as far as price goes and so it's not it's really not too bad when we renegotiate price I think I think so too sellers right
like they're not looking at homes every single day so they're going to miss things or have a little bit of different interpretation or what's good to you it might not be
good or you know me yeah so it's not really like the blame game as soon we
get there we just have a reasoning for why now we're different okay here so yeah most definitely and
that's awesome so are you still cold calling like how are you getting your leads yeah so right now we're doing
we're just doing outbounds I mean I do want to put some inbound marketing together but okay outbounds are doing
well so I do both pool calling and texting I have a couple of days that do both for me
they push them over the CRM is warm I take it from there but yeah everything that I do still is
cold and outbound between texting and calling who do you use for your texting
launch control I think I use launch control I know launch control and
what is I think it's REI reply good stuff about them too they sound pretty similar
I think it just depends on what you want or how many people you have working with you you know how much you're getting in Poland and whatnot so yeah
most definitely I actually follow the same type of system I just don't do the texting I'm
just doing cold calling at the moment texting has worked out well for us actually yeah
I'm surprised I didn't really have any expectation but it's it's I've only been doing it since the beginning of the
year but I'll tell you that so many more people reply to you and I think
because the answer rate is is higher the chances of getting a yes is
higher is obviously it's a numbers game yeah but it's just funny I like it just because you know even if you have
like a list of you know how let's say you have a big list of you know 5 000 people on it that you're kind of you're cold calling throughout the month like
there's if you go if you have a dialer that'll show you how many times you call numbers
you can pull that and then look at how many times people have never been called or never never answered and it's
such a high rate it's like then you finally get them on the phone after calling that number five six times just for them to tell you no right I sent out
you know I think you can send a bat 150 text messages is a batch so you send a batch in the morning it sends out to 150
people or phone numbers even if they come back and say no F off whatever at least I got that
response out and then I can push you out instead of continuing marketing to you you know like to me a response any
response is better no response oh 100 you know I I'm all for you know at least
getting something out of them you know yeah so yeah
I like I like it a lot I mean I think it all works but for me I just I like the texting yeah I think I need to get it
into it a little bit more I'm a little bit deeper so I use call tools for my cold calling
I've never used call tools but I've heard a lot you know I've heard call tools a lot a lot of programs a lot of
people throw calls yeah I actually I actually really like culture is that a dialer is that is that just yeah so it's
a DOT you can use it as a dialer and a CRM but I put all my lists inside there
and I do everything the only thing that goes over my podio is anything that anybody says yes okay we fill it out and
it just goes over to the podio so now my podio is not filled with all these
leads that we have in contact yeah right that's how mine's set up the only thing that Tim if you're in my podio it's because you raise your hand you know
exactly yeah so so and it makes it just keeps it clean
I like it and I like it because if if your Rodeo is that clean then two
what you can do from there which I just a lot of things I'm doing this year honestly is not much different I'm just I I have pulled probably 50 60 000
addresses over the last three years and I've kept them all in what is it badge leads I think
back I like batch leads for a lot of their stuff I don't use their call I don't use their dialer or any other marketing stuff but I use them for
their skip tracing or for their I get them to pull my lists and then saving them on that that list tab that they
have is really cool because everything that I've done in the last three years or like that's only been
doing it for about three years I've pulled that and took all those
people who were still on the table they haven't told me no we bought it got a deal done or whatever
through them inside the texting and that's all I've done and all the texting all the deals we got in this year which
I mean I say all but I think it's been probably four deals with the fifth one
in the works the one I got the Hazel Park deal that's I'm texting yeah all this came from prior prior data
I've had the last two to three years so I mean if you have enough data I would
like I would you know squeeze the there's still juice in there I would still be the use out of it you know just
because you use them last year like oh that's just crazy for me you know unless you've been I've only been doing it for
three years but here in your first or second year you don't have that this year I've just went back and and
remarketed a lot of those same people and I've gotten I think half the deal as a sheriff came
from that so expe if it's a campaign that you know worked yeah that's what you want to track your campaigns too
yeah but you know if you have a deal log or whatever that's your CRM or you're running like a you know spreadsheet on Google it is
so important to know where you pulled that from you know whether you're beating a dead horse you're actually still pulling
some money out of that that you know certain list or whatever you pulled super important definitely all the
little things you don't think about you know year one and two and stuff you're just so worried about getting a deal which again I mean I should be your
farm you know your front Focus but some of the little things you pick up along the way we're like just the little things that you know can make you that
much more money is you just you're you know your awareness goes up obviously over oh most definitely so nothing you
can do about it except for you know through time and I guess experience but yeah and so what are the some of the lists
that you've been pulling like as far as like the or the criteria yeah what
are you playing yeah yeah so I mean a lot of the stuff that I do honestly has been through
a lot of the programs I've went to but the two things that I do as far as like this isn't the type but like the
two that I do is weekly distressed and then monthly
well how would you say I guess weekly distress and then a monthly large more General list so I'm really distressed
which there's probably 10 15 different types you could do but I do probate pre-probate and inheritance just because
inheritance could be probate probate was pre-probate at once and pre-appropriate well obviously so I try to beat them in
all Corners there so that's why I do inheritance probate and pre-probate and it's weekly distress because I get it
every Wednesday from The Source that pulls it from the courthouse got it so then
on a monthly list what I do is I pull probably 5 000 records for the
texting 5000 for the calling and those are usually those are usually
motivation or I'm sorry opportunity it makes motivation so opportunity like
let's say you're looking just to make cash offers you're not worried about sub 2 or anything like that opportunity would be Equity or it's
fully paid off or owned it for a long time so if they've owned it for a long time and if they
have a refinance you know they've they've appreciation plus paid out so that's opportunity and then motivation
is usually what I'll do like for example is throw vacant on there then I'll go a
little bit deeper to see like if I'm so if I'm I'm pulling a list and I say you know there's 8 000 people on this list
I've learned a sweet spot of of how many records you pull for me anyways it
seems to be about 5 000 or so far five eight nine like it's two two general you're wasting time yeah so if it's if
it is say I have equity in there a large amount of equity then I put the vacancy tab on
there the other thing I'll do is throw at least a five thousand dollar lean on there whether that's a mortgage or taxes
or whatever because they need some type of payment or some type of you know post for payment that they
need to uh make do before you know foreclosure or something like that so
it just depends on how how small or large of an area I'm pulling a list from but typically it's you know opportunity
to mix with one or two types of potential for motivation so
we do a lot of tired landlord and
so it's usually a tired landlord what do you call it not owner occupied yeah yeah
some sort of Lena whether that's a mortgage or some sort of involuntary lien yeah I was I was doing entire
landlords and I was not being getting successful hits because
they're all like well yeah give me an offer or basically I want retail price right you know right yeah and I'm like
sorry that's not gonna happen so obviously you're not a tired landlord so
yeah but I'll tell you what the tired landlords I mean it's Hit or Miss because you never know what their
situation is but when you have that lien on there and all of a sudden you ring
that one person who has been paid in three months five months yes now they
have pain so as for as many of them that are out there that have you know debt
debt on their property but their property is Cash flowing with a good tenant you're still going to get those two three four five deals on that list
where someone's tenant is not you know that property is not performing yeah
and I like those because those are I mean those are I like working those deals because the
sellers are obviously a little more keen to real estate and so yeah it's easier to explain a win-win to
them you know and and as long as you actually provide a solution to them they're they're easy to work easier to
work with in my opinion yeah I mean yeah they're probably you know some of them are going to give you a hard time that's just kind of some
people's personality type but I mean I don't know I've seen a click with those type of people
yeah I mean that that's the thing like you talk shop with them and see how it goes and you know that's the biggest
thing that I've seen on it is like you know
you they know what's going on they don't you're not having to hold their hand
throughout the whole process they know exactly what's going on you know yeah so so yeah I mean that's the two types that
I'm doing I mean it's not too nothing crazy but weekly distressed and then a larger list I just like to go niche in
general just to kind of keep two different you know things there so and one
thing that I I've been on even newer people is mainly about consistency just
because you buy a list and you don't get any hits you just have to be consistent you know and you do yeah and especially
with the follow-ups because you know it'll only be like a five to
ten percent chance that I'll get something off of a list I'll get a hot lead and they're like yeah I want to
sell and I'm gonna give it to you exactly what you want today today yeah
so ninety percent of the time 90 to 95 percent of the time it's not until I
follow up with them the fifth the 10th time so our our average
point of contact so if as far as just you and I and not just a tax but a texting
conversation in itself yeah the the average point of contact we have with a closed deal not a contract
like a closed deal is 17. wow yeah so I mean yeah you're right there's some
that are like I mean I've had them where we went over and signed the contract the next day you're like holy crap but
you get but again it's consistency because yeah we'll get those if you're consistent most times it takes
you know say you pull a list today and this is another thing I learned in a some good education I got last year but
it's return what is it it's it's your your your cash return cycle basically so
the type that you kind of put money into marketing and the time you get all of that money back I'm cold calling you
know between the point in time where I spend you know 500 bucks on a list and and Skip tracing it and then paying
a cold caller and I'm a couple Grand in or Sam you know two two grand in for three months I'm six grand in
it's gonna take three to five months to get the return on that not to say that you won't get one in the first
couple weeks but if you average that out consistently for 12 months and you look from the point until you pulled that list of the time you got the deal done
it's usually about three to five months for say a month whatever maybe a month
it goes by get the deal 30 days goes by that's three months right or you get
somebody who is ready to go or but they just can't make the decision yet because
they're waiting on somebody or something legitimately that they can't yet close
so that's another 30 days so it's third it's usually about 90 to 120 days is
your return on that cash conversion cycle is what it is
so patience and consistency it sucks like being patient yeah you see in the
same sentence it's kind of weird but like if you learn that and you just know and it's tough but
I mean I it's funny being much more comfortable I am knowing that I'm gonna get a deal or two in a couple weeks or
whatever versus you know the first six months like crap I mean am I gonna eat
yeah I mean really it's going to be a math equation the more people you talk
to the better chance you have of getting a deal you know and you know as long as
you keep on your follow-ups and and keep with those I mean though they will come
and you know it will happen so
but that's one thing I've learned about is just developing a system so
you know for beginners out there they're hand dialing their spreadsheets they're doing all this and things like
that and it's great to start off with but you at least want to think about
even just drawing it out like a flow chart of how you how you want like okay
you cold call the lead comes in where do you want it to go how do you want to follow up and what do
you want to say things like that you know and you you don't have to have all
the systems you can just okay this is my plan for when I can afford it when I do my first
couple deals and I can put money into it you know yeah I would say so like if I could put some input on top of that to
actually get somebody uh something like trackable and measurable our our average so to give you some
numbers as far as getting a contract it takes us uh Route 20 is it 27 to 30
warm leads people who said yes to get a contract got it so if you think about
you know your talk to I forget I think our average like uh person we talked to
to person who raises their hand is like one and like I think 70 something like
that right so that's actually not bad number so like one in 70 to get a warm lead and then you get 27 to uh 30 warm
leads to get a deal and so you ask yourself if you want to deal a month I think if you're just starting off
instead of 27 to 30 you're probably looking at closer to like 50.
so if you think about how many conversations it takes to get 50 yeses or 50 you know interested people you
probably are going to have to pull a list of 5 000 people or something and just Hammer that thing every single day
and so like if you're to call and say you're calling you know say say you're calling you're dialing 500 dials a day which if you have a
dialer that's I mean it sounds like a lot an auto dialer as you know is going to knock out yeah 100 and like you know
six hours and that's just six hours of sitting on a dialer right six hours so say you're doing you know
500 aisles and I said it takes you know say it takes 75
to get you know that's six so that's six people out of that you know and you're doing that every day you
gotta think about the numbers where maybe that you make sense so you can get a deal so I think it's a lot of people
to talk to to get a yes and it takes a lot of yeses to get an actual deal so I
would think of it in that process and how much time you can sit there once you know how many people it takes to talk to
to get to talk to and take two yes and this right here and this right here I just kind of want to bring up is exactly
why wholesalers are important okay do you think a fix and flipper is gonna do all that work
yeah right they don't have that they're like no I want to get my next flip I want to get there I want to turn that
money as much as possible and I want to work on the next flight so yeah you know
you know that's the reason why we are wholesalers that's the reason why we you
know there are wholesalers and that's the reason why fix and flippers should love us most do some want to count our
money unfortunately so you know usually those that want to count our
money I usually don't sell it on anymore so this deal is on the MLS for them exactly exactly yeah so
now you also do fix and flips and buy and holds as well right
I don't hold anything right now I kind of have a different goal of mine for that sure only rental I have is my old
house so I moved down to Detroit here in downtown decided to rent I like the idea of just renting and
not having any maintenance for the home but anyways no rentals just my old first home that I have that fortunately cash flows
pretty well but I bought it when my mortgage was three percent so
but right now yeah it's all I'm an agent so I do a few listings it's
probably 80 wholesale you know 10 flip 10 list so right I do my goal is to do
and I just started doing this I did my first flip last year but my goal is to do you know a flip a quarter this year
just because it'll supplement the wholesaling yep you know if I can do a flip a quarter wholesale you know
three Deals a month four deals a month you know that's just kind of it fits
my goals fits my capacity as I'm just myself and a couple of va's so
it's something I can get a good wide base on and then maybe next year scale that instead of doing four we do you
know six or eight in them you know five wholesale deals a month or something but that's what I've been doing this year
so far so that's awesome yeah no I mean it's it's a really good thing to know
where you need to go and what you need do and hey I have goals that I want to do one flip a quarter you know I want to
do three to four deals a month you know so on and so forth so
you know what do you find that is so I mean you
talk to a lot of people as far as people in the real estate game and new
wholesalers and things like that a lot what do you what is the most common
question you get from a new wholesaler how do I know what
a deal is how do you know what a deal is okay I just feel like that's the common
question I get or they say they have a deal and I look at it and it's it's not a deal so yeah
you know no offense that's what I did first too but I think you know the biggest thing as far as a deal goes like I would say I don't mean like I guess if
you're like brand new new yeah who knew there's three things to get to know
what a deal is or three components to learn to understand what a deal is as is
value what the cost repairs are and then after repair value and it sounds super silly
like okay yeah I know that's what I'm trying to do figure out the cash offer price
I honest to God I I love wholesaling I really do but I think lately it's been
misguided and probably overlooked as far as wholesaling goes
I mean it's a great way to get in with no skin in the game you know try to you know it's the lowest barrier to entry but I would say
you have to take an Avenue to probably put a little more skin in the game and I'm not saying you have to have
a big bank account go out and buy houses but I would do one or two things either become an agent
so you can get access to MLS and understand the actual components to real estate and
you know learn to know what you're looking at running comps pulling values understanding what's what or
try to learn the lens of an actual investor wholesalers we're not investors we're
marketers that's that's all we do is Market but learn what it's like to be investor
what I mean is go to your meetups and learn and meet your private money lenders and the reason I say that is
like check this out so I mean it sounds simple but it's overlooked but if you if you go get some relationships and
priority lenders there are people that you can ask you know what the criteria is
we'll end on a property and they're going to tell you and that's kind of the criteria things it needs for a property
to be a deal so you're going to learn from them obviously you want to reach out to buyers in the area start asking them I
mean I would say to be you know drop drop your ego and have some humility and just ask around like buyers you know
people you can trust and know but um anyways going back to the lender if you make relationships with private money or
Harmony lenders and obviously if um if they lend on it and they're gonna be able to lend on the property you bring
them a property that's a deal and they're able to lend on it think about it it's a deal like they have most
likely unless they're a new lender and their criteria is not good but I mean if you bring them a property and children
are contractor trying to get in a contract and you know they take a look at it ask some questions whatever they're running their criteria and they
say okay yes we'll end on the property
right but like now you know and doing that then a good deal and so if a deal deal for you at
the price you're sending for them right to one of the numbers and why would 5 10 grand more not be a deal for another
investor right so I mean those are things I would do is
condition yourself to get better at knowing what ARV is and what repair costs are what as is value is
um since I've been an agent and I pay for you know MLS access which MLS is just
um that's the database that agents have access to to look up properties are for sale pending closed
um you know to look at what they sold for all that soft little pictures um in in that access right there I mean
I'm able to pull the things so much deeper and look at what things are actually selling for cash like I'm going to go in there it literally just just
like prop stream but you know cops you can start to look what things are pulling for
um you know I mean I guess to know as is value real quick I mean I think the biggest thing is let's stick to the
structure Style if you can at least for the first two comps or probably three you can go
deeper if you can't find anything on the structure style location which location location
obviously like everybody says in real estate and then make sure within a range of
square footage in your build
you know you want to compare a ranch to another Ranch you want some thousand square foot home to 850 900 up to 1250
or so you don't want to compare it to 24 hours per home you know you don't want to check you know five miles across town
and you know obviously if you're an area that's dense enough but and then you don't want to compare
something about the 50s to 2020 right and you got to be careful about Crossing
main roads yes in more dense air I mean like genesis a little bit different we're you know half a million people in
our County versus Oakland County which what two is it 2 million or so something like that yeah right but to
your point yeah like you know like you were talking about Nine Mile I mean yeah as little as those
little nuances but going north going north of Nine Mile is better than south of Nine Mile right
and that's like it it's the same thing in Warren that that's what they actually have a special thing for in Warren south
of Nine Mile is considered South Warren yeah yeah so I mean yeah the location
and proximity matters yeah stuff like that but yeah I mean that's the other thing as far as getting to know what a deal looks
like yeah like I mean I'm sure a lot of people I give myself like got into wholesaling real estate probably from
watching YouTube or Facebook Instagram you know whatever even Tick Tock apparently but
a lot of things you see on there are the people that have been doing it for 10 15 years right or whatever
gurus you see a lot of them who wholesale Statewide Nationwide
things like that yeah that's cool that's good for them I mean maybe one day I'm there I'm wholesaling Nationwide
but I think what a lot of people forget about is playing in your own sandbox in your own backyard
all across town you're like no like do you know what's across Nine Mile you
know they don't so I mean that right there has gotten me much more comfortable like someone sends me a deal
now as far as in Genesee County I'm like what cross streets I'm like what do they want for I'm like probably a little high but I'll check it out you know yeah
versus having no idea or run out of town or like all right let me go back around my numbers like I don't need to like I
mean maybe but I need to tell you hot or cold and then I'll be able to take a look at it so that honestly has has been able to
have me be much more efficient I guess most definitely and
that's one thing that you know I look at and that's the reason why I tell people they're like
well do you do other states do you do other markets and and I'm like you know
I'll look at something but my my focus is the Tri-County area they're like yeah
I'll give my general real estate knowledge but yeah so if maybe you're working on a deal or not but I just it's
not I mean you got to think about your your hours and Day and The Time that there's plenty of things and I'm not
saying to cancel everything out but I mean I mean like I specialize in Oakland
Macomb and Wayne County you know I'm Genesee County and I've picked five four five exactly and and I've actually come
to you on anything on in Genesee County I'm like hey I don't know this area could you tell me
like yes I mean that's that's how I do it so yeah I I mean knowing you're knowing
your stuff is key honestly I think this year if I haven't
done anything different really or okay besides adding texting but I mean I've
been marketing this year the last three two years prior you know Genesee County and now this
year a little bit last year to Oakland a little bit but I mean the difference this year is
that I'm I'm just going deeper in my own market and yeah when I go deeper I now
have seen a lot of these same price you know if it's not the same property it might be on the same street or neighborhood and I know what deals were
were and we're not selling for around there and I guess just like longevity which I haven't been doing it for a long
time at all I've been doing it the spec of time but I mean just three years of being consistent I'm like holy crap you
know what will five and ten years of consistency look like as far as just this is
you know sniffing out opportunity in in Genesee County so it's just I guess it pays to stick
around and you know go deep in your own Market first and I find it funny that a lot of
people from out of town they they look at you're like you can get a house for that price
and I'm like yeah but it's not the best area but if that's what you want if if you're if the
only thing you're looking for is cash flow cheap properties yeah cheap Properties by all means now you still
have to my biggest thing is is this I tell people anybody who's new coming into the
area going into Detroit going into Flint you need to have a good property manager
that that is good in that area yeah I mean all the houses I even wholesale the
like I've never bought anything in Florida they have wholesale in Flint nine times out of ten has been to a property management company
or somebody who was out of town who I refer them to want the same Property
Management Company right so and that's another thing is is
getting to know these people getting going to these meetups getting you know I get probably about three or four
property management companies like talk to me all the time hey you know like I
know I'm off the top of my head I am in my you know in my in my phone and everything and
they're good people they're they know what they're doing and and if if a
buyer or somebody they have buyers yeah they have and that yeah that's another thing they do have buyers so I send them
my deals and I get them added to my buyers list property management and property management companies
are also licensed yeah you know so you know more
than likely they have buyers and you can work with them you don't have to pay them a wholesale fee necessarily but you might be able to pay them a thousand
dollars you know every single time because you can do volume with them or whatnot I
mean there's whatever carve out your own relationship but I mean yeah opportunity is definitely there and that and that's another thing is is
that when you talk to them guess what some of their their property when I you know that's
distressed or tired landlords or whatever they come up
you know yeah so things like that now
tell me a little bit about you know how you know when you're talking to a
seller and you know they're giving you a little bit of a resistance I guess you
know what is your strategy behind do you try to be as transparent as possible
like I like I mean I guess run me through a little bit of when somebody's trying to be like oh you're a
damn wholesaler and and you know like I've actually had that a couple of times I had one guy say
I don't want to sell to investors at all I want to sell to somebody who's going to live in the house
I mean that person there's nothing I do with that I mean yeah that's fine am I here to convince you or waste
your normal my time but exactly the answer your question on that so
honestly this a lot of things I've changed up in the last six months if anything this has been my process so my
process is is a little bit more lengthy as far as
the initial cold call cold packs we bring after that they push them over the
first conversation I have with you is just a follow-up call hey my partner we've got to see on your property here
do you have any interest on that property now or in the near future oh you do okay and I go into telling them I
basically set the stage every single conversation we have with them so we have we have a first it's a follow-up
call second it's a process call so processes initially also asking you the
four questions trying to dig for that motivation Etc et cetera if you are able to walk through that whole process call
with them after that we formulate the urgency and the next call is the offer call
but every single every single one of those calls all three four of those calls is basically
the first thing I'm letting you know is the time the call will be hey do you have five maybe ten minutes on for this
okay um I give you the agenda and the reason
and then the opportunity to say no and that's on every single call so it forms
basically it lets you it it's like the thing I hate when people cold call me about whatever is that you call me out
of the blue you don't tell me why you're calling you don't tell me who you're with and you
don't even tell me like how long we're going to be on this call in the agenda you just start firing questions away at
me and I'm like you didn't even ask me if I was you know if I had a couple minutes or if I wanted to ask your question answer your questions right any
questions and ask you and then why you're even asking me these questions like you know because then I mean I feel
defensive like I'm going to give you some answer that you're going to use that information to use on me
um every single call um and I I don't know if you're looking for this in depth of a process but I've
I've learned that through the the the process if you make a solid process and I'm not saying if they make it a long
process but the commitment from them the level of commitment obviously is deeper
and deeper the more you go down that path with them and every single time I go on that call it's basically that you
know time agenda the reason I'm calling and build and then give you the option to tell me no
letting you know that's okay it gives people a better frame of mind and brings their guard down because
they know what's coming you know it is and the reason you're asking the questions and so I would tell you honestly
the only resistance I really get is on phone call one yeah and then phone
call two which phone call two is that if we're taking you down that road or you're just gonna get put on the I don't
know a six month follow-up because you made it to the second phone call so we'll just probably in six months
you know if we get to the third call and something happens like I don't know that something fell out or whatever but yep
I mean that third fourth that third and fourth phone call is usually to figure out
what kind of offer we're gonna formulate and the only reason you're getting the fourth call is if we're giving you an offer on the third call we're trying to
figure out the only other thing that is if you're able to make a decision right now is there anything right now that's holding you back
or no we don't even ask holding you back but you know once you got the offer you know what's the next thing you have to
figure out if anything and if they tell us oh well you know I got you know whatever wait for probate you know
whatever okay so we know that even right now if we wanted to and the perfect price came you can't sell we're not
giving you a price right we're putting you on a consistent follow-up for three months to become your best friend so that when the time comes it's not a
question of if we're working together it's just a question of how we're gonna work together if I'm going to list your property I'm going to buy it myself sub
tube cash on sale it flip it whatever and so that's honestly how I've been
able to be a little more efficient with my time knock down the resistance at the end because I everybody hates and you
work on this deal forever and then you get to the end and it's like we're way off on price or they have some objection
that we never even talked about and it just not match all that stuff out of the way so that the point where I mean
you know I'm going to your house because word is we're gonna we're buying it yeah
so that's one thing that I do actually when when I follow up hey
you know like hey my my my partner actually gave you a call
the other day about your property she said that you're interested in selling it do you have a this is just a
follow-up call on that do you have a few minutes to talk mm-hmm
if they say no great when's the next time I can reach out to you yeah you know I always ask them hey if
you were me what would when would you follow up with you next like one movie you know good time for me to actually
reach out to you then yeah even if they say no I'm not selling
right now I say okay great is it okay if I follow up with you in say three months
Armada and if I if I say a month and they say well better give it six months okay
great I'm scheduling a follow-back up in six months yeah I always ask can I always leave it up to them too to see
what they say instead of ask is okay if I give you a call in six months instead of them saying yes or no I was trying to
ask them to get an answer out of them I was just like you know okay cool you know hey if you were me
you know is there a time that you maybe follow up with you in the future and they might say next month oh shoot okay
because like you're thinking six but they might be thinking like not right now because literally at the moment they
got three calls that day and two weeks later they can get a call from whatever and they're like yeah taxes are due or
probate done they're like Oh I thought that was gonna be three months and it changes so I mean I always I I mean I
used to always say okay it's okay if I call you in six months thinking because if I push the envelope that far out they're okay with it instead of me can I
call you in 30 days no like so I always just say if you were me you know is there in the future that
would be okay to follow up and they might say yeah you know and whatever they say I always bring it I always set
it up a little bit early yeah you know do it like 25 less you know what I mean
so for sure yeah so like if they say okay call me back in next month I'm I'm
scheduling a call back in three weeks yeah it's that's about what we do is that two and a half midmark you know two
and a half weeks on a Wednesday or depending when we talk to you three weeks something like that yeah exactly so
now you said you have virtual assistants are they both are they out of
the Philippines at the moment both in the Philippines both I don't know how that goes as far as
education but college degrees both have worked for Verizon BP Oil I
you know all Allstate I'm sure or Farmers Insurance I think
but they've got great English they know our culture as far as a little bit of slang whatever terminology yep and
they've had interactions with real estate so I got fortunate my VA actually recruited the other VA I paid
him no opponents to go find some friends and I interviewed them because I like he's been with me for
a month and a half and I'm like or a year and a half and I'm like well if he whoever he's hanging out with has to be
a little bit like him as far as he works hard he's loyal and I treat him well I know his family's name everything like
that you know so I'm really good to him and I have culture in our I mean as much culture you can have
with va's but I mean you know like he's not just some VA that works for us whatever like I don't know I treat him I
treat them better than probably most people do honest to God most definitely so there's a question from Lewis over
here if he finds a creative Finance deal is it worth contacting a lawyer to draft
up the contract
yeah so if I find a career oh what was the question if we found a creative deal is it worth contacting a lawyer or
Jeff up the contract I mean yeah for sure I mean once once your lawyer dress up that contract you can take that
template and probably use that to draft up the paperwork but I would say it's a very good idea to have an attorney or a lawyer on your
side I wouldn't say it's a lawyer more so like a real estate attorney yeah local real estate attorney is great
you know you don't have to use them for everything they're obviously you know a little expensive but they're worth it you know that it's going to be
exactly what you're looking for so if you found one that you you know thought was worth it either a you're going to
find a title company that might be able to have that paperwork Pro you know that that processor might be able to do it for you
or B you'd find a real estate attorney or C if you go into Facebook and you look
at pacemorbies create a financing Group which in public there are
creative Finance transaction coordinators that you can pay they have their own Services just transaction
coordinating and part of that is drafting up the documents for you so they will which I've paid actually
I've only done two two creative deals but the the first one I did actually inside of the sub 2 program
I found somebody who has just a trend create a financing transaction coordinating company and that's all they
do and I paid 200 bucks I mean an attorney is 300 an hour I
pay them 200 to get all the paperwork together they just ask me all the questions of the deal they did that they
sent it on DocuSign and sent it to my seller for me so
you're gonna pay at least two 250 300 bucks to a good attorney wherever you're at for sure and that's per hour
so you know yeah I would definitely I'm not saying
don't you just you know choose what you would think is best for you so I I definitely recommend you know using a
you know using a transaction
coordinator from okay yeah transaction coordinator from the sub 2 crew
you know it's and you don't have to be a sub 2 student there's a public one I think like I said I think it's creative financing by
Pace morby or something like that it's it's you know it's out there but there's people in the sub too like I'm
in that group so there's people I guess honestly if you want you know I can try to connect somebody to this fill us up twos here as well yeah I'm local yeah
oh see look at that so this is in the Facebook group this is Cheryl Lynn
Turner so in our Facebook group here fellow substitute student here as
well and she's a local practicing attorney great discussion tonight looking forward to working with both of
you in the future so by all means Lewis if you go over to our Facebook group Metro Detroit off-market Real Estate
Group you can be able to find this I I find this lady in there and work with
her so by all means but yeah I mean try to connect as
much as possible so I I I'm not a sub 2 student and
you know I may be eventually but at the moment I'm not but Carson here is
and I definitely highly recommend everything that I've seen about the sub tube group and the the program the
mentorship it's all 100 worth it so it is I mean it's more so yeah whatever you
mean you get whatever you what you get out of things what you put into it but yeah it's a good community of people
there's they just started out of meetups here in Michigan we've done them down in
Ann Arbor I believe yeah Gabby has put them on for us I don't know she's in
here or not but anyways some two students only
yeah I mean that it's not super strict I brought a couple buddies that were not in sub two I mean the more the merrier
but they're they're full-time real estate you know guys so but well next time listen come get me
out I will so but yeah yeah most definitely
so with you know kind of back to what we were talking about as far as you know
talking with yourselves what is one of the I guess one what's one of the best
objections that that you get from a seller you what what the biggest objection
or the biggest objection I get yeah oh
if it's objection you know that's something I probably
have to track or measure but if it's not price it's it's
I think it's understanding the process I mean I'm trying to think of the biggest objection I get honestly I'm trying to
think of a spot what are the summer you get maybe I'm trying to you know help yeah so so some
of the some of the ones that I get is obviously the price that's the biggest thing right but besides the price it's
yeah I'm not ready right now I still want to sell but I'm you know like I
have one today like that I follow up with her every single Monday because she gets off she's
off work on Tuesdays and Sundays and she goes I I'll if anything I'll be
at the property on a Tuesday it's an inherited property and so I call her every single Monday
and say hey you're going to be over there tomorrow I can come meet you out there oh I still got to clean it I don't
care about all that stuff like I can get you an offer no problem I can look past all of that you know
and so every single Monday like you know it's literally come down to
you know I call her up hey this is Randy oh hey Randy how's it going like I'm before I even I'm not even talking about
the property I'm talking about her you know how her week was how her weekend was stuff like that you know but the
biggest I won't even call an objection but it kind of is is it's just the timeline
my thing about objections now honestly is just that upfront process of of
trying to figure out your level of motivation because yeah at the end of the day then too it's
really an objection it's more so just handling their their situation and so a lot of the situations that
we end up you know closing on or are just things that take time whether that's
you know probate divorce I've had people where they're
they were letting their other spouse live in the property with their kids until their kids you know were out of school and so we've waited like school
years we've had situations you know where
tenants are going to move out in two or three months but they know they're not going to lease again the property needs work and so when they're done it's
vacant they can sell it then it's always I would say the biggest
you know that's why I'm saying I don't want to even really call an objection but like the biggest thing for us is
just time yeah time and timing because
things change all the time too I today I guess I had a guy that I just talked to
two weeks ago that wanted me to he's like yeah I want
you to come over take a look at the property and I was just like well cool I said you know that's cool is because I you know the reason I'm contacting is
because we just sold property or two we'll come by the next one you know
so I don't care I mean I can I always tell people this I can you know check with you in six months that's cool too
but we're looking for the next property we can close on in the next you know say you know 30 60 90 days you know
if we came over there and the price came to it I mean is that something you're ready to do I mean I I don't I you know
I can always call you in six months and I always push it out I always yeah I would say as far as like objections go I
think I know so more and push things out to real people in oh got it and not in a
way of like you know oh why haven't you listed with a realtor maybe you should just like I don't do those obvious
things anymore because then it's just like well then why the hell did you call me but I always just like do that like lost lost puppy type thing or like
yeah you know giving you way too much benefit for the doubt type thing to where you correct mean or are you
tell me otherwise because I feel like a lot of people they like to correct people but they don't like to to divulge too much
information so I always say things were you know that I try to talk incorrect to where they're like no no no like I would
sell the next 30 60 days like oh really okay well you know tell me about that like you know you know like what was
that right and then they might tell you so I'm always just kind of playing I
don't know I'm trying to play Checkers chess with people a little bit not too much but I just you know I
don't wanna I'm not here to chase you and you know make you feel like your
property's gold and you know that's why we're calling it like we're calling you because we're calling the neighborhood
we're calling the neighborhood because we're looking for a property today that's fine
we're always looking for properties but you know the reason we'd be coming over is because we're ready to buy exactly so I just had the stage a lot of
times back to set the expectations all the time yeah and then just tell them like hey
oh I always tell people too like oh you know any people I talk to you today I'm like nobody wants to sell to me right
now like you know like totally understand if you say no like you just be the next person to tell me no right
right you know I don't know I just I guess I'd come with being comfortable like first I
was scared to have anybody tell me no because I was gonna lose a deal but now I've just realized like dude the more I could get through those the quicker the
more I can get to the yeses and then the maybes or whatever and the time frames like that's just when a good badass
follow-up system comes in place yeah 100 so that that's actually a good
thing I'm actually going to be taking notes myself there so you know because I always bring that
up hey well if you want that price you know that's more retail you know
you know I know a few Realtors and I can you know that are very trustworthy
and I can get you set up with a realtor you know yeah yeah so yeah that's the
like okay I don't know how much time we have left but not like to sum that up the reason I became I mean not one one
of the reasons I became a realtor so I can I I do like helping people out no matter the situation like if we can list
your property and you're cool with that you trust me you like me like let's listen to it that's cool I'm all about maximizing my deals and
so one thing I do for people is I walk through with them and they say I want
150 this is how I lock up the Hazel Park deal he wanted 125 000 for it okay and I
was just like you know I think that's totally reasonable I think if you list the property you got the tenants out there and we
cleaned it up and we put a lock box on it and people were able to walk through the property and homeowners have the
opportunity to say okay cool I can make this my own I think you can get that all day long he's like really I'm like yeah
that's a great number he's like yeah okay I said so let me show you what that would look like and I sent him to something called a seller net sheet
which title companies provide this but if you put the property address in
they'll pull up the local taxes and it'll prorate everything yeah whatever the point is if you tell them a seller
net sheet provided by a title company at 125 minus their prorated taxes
closing costs mortgage and everything it'll show you what they're actually walking away with and so there's 125 that he wanted to
list for plus the closing cost fees and everything was more like what was it
well here here I'm sorry bad quick math but that's all right
ended up being about 112. we'll lock the deal up for less than that
and it was easier because now we weren't 25 000 off we're like
maybe 10 grand off and I just asked him you know hey totally understand where you're coming from so if you want to get
this you know just know we got to do a b and c if you're cool with this just know
it we don't have to do anything at all and then I just shut up and then I let them in their own head say okay yeah
some to 10 grand more but I got to put maybe a little bit of time and effort into it and then I'm not sure if I'm
actually gonna get it yeah yeah cash sounds good or if they don't and they're like let's go for that
okay let's go for that so then it's just easier to let people go in the direction that they want to go
and I can just perform my best for them because I tell them too which is the other thing where we anchor back to us buying it creative over cash or
whatever like I am going to serve you at my best no matter what we do here that being said
once we go into listing the property my offers are off the table I'm not
going to do that and then Circle back onto my offer and then you question me if I perform the best for you on listing
the property or another broker sees that it's sold and you know
I'll end up buying it and now my my credit or my my character is questionable yeah legally Legally you
can't do that yeah yeah oh see okay I didn't even know that well good thing I'm good thing I'm a moral person well
because because the thing is the thing is is it's ethically yeah well that's what it is and I mean I I don't I'm not
gonna put myself in that position but then two it just strengthens strengthens your your decision as far as well shoot
here he is right now making this offer yep I want to see if we can list it but
if it doesn't go then and then he's not around to buy any more of an oh my gosh I gotta find another investor
and not everybody does that but the people that do then it just solidifies how much more of a deal it actually is
and everybody else it pushes them in the direction they want to go and I hold their hand and we go that way or we don't do business that's fine
was meant to be but yeah I mean that that's what I do that that's awesome though so 100 you
know completely agree with that and you know the good thing is you're
showing them and I kind of do that a little bit and I let them know hey if you go with a realtor it it's on average
about nine to eleven percent to sell your house okay on on average and I say that
because it depends if they're going to come back with concessions they're going to come back with what you know things
that you made 100. realtor fee and your closing costs like there might still be two three percent
concessions exactly well four or five or so I've seen I've seen six percent so I mean yeah I would say definitely about 10 that's what I did that 125 I used 90 of
I think it came with about 112. but instead of doing that and explaining that to them I'll just send
them the sheets and they'll look at you know actual closing costs and everything I just I like to paint a picture for
people and then let them interpret what good is good and what's bad is bad and what's worth what to them instead of
telling them see now we're only 10 grand apart well now I'm trying to sell you yeah instead I'm just trying to inform
you that's interesting so yeah and I'm actually dealing with one
seller who's a hot it's a high-end property and you know they want
X number here but because it's a higher end property the holding costs and everything alone are just astronomical
so it's like I gave them a one down here and like I can come up a little bit they
gave me the Rock Bottom number which is up here you know and I'm like it's just not gonna work you know
I mean that's what I tell people about too is I tell them I listen you think
I'm you think I'm rich you think I'm buying these 150 000 properties my money
damn fool you know yeah I use private money you know just like everybody else and even if I didn't here's the thing
you know if I'm not borrowing money and paying interest on it let's say I am using my own cash it's good it's nothing
it's sitting there not in a savings account at least making something percent if I buy this property with my own cash it's making zero yeah
so I still have to account for the fact of you know and you don't have to get into the technicality of it like that I mean however you want to tell
them but like it's like really you buy your own cash like you know economic loss like you're in current economic loss like you're not making any money
you're you're losing money on the you know deflation of the the dollar is every you know month you hold on to it
but it's I mean it's you know it's it's a cost right or someone else's money it cost
me to use that money and you know unfortunately that bakes into the cake here of the equation I'm putting
together and so I have a question that if you come
across and you come across a deal that maybe either got locked up too high or
you're not getting any interest on it and you can't really renegotiate or you
want to renegotiate but you really you got no feedback from any buyers right
you don't have any power in every negotiation I mean exactly so basically you're forced to let the
property go you know so how do you have that conversation with the seller yeah
fortunately I've only had probably in the last three year first year I had some
properties to follow contracts and we'll talk about doing last year in this year I think together honestly I think I've only had about I've had less than five
deals with five contracts that's awesome one was we didn't see the property yet
we went there it was not what they told us couldn't renegotiate
that's on the seller yep the other one pipe burst when the property was vacant
and we were told them not to dude honestly I mean I'm trying to think
oh you know what actually yeah the December I had a property where I locked it up too high and I
couldn't move it but I actually I put an inspection period on it because I was unsure so the
thing is right now is because I'm in Genesee County like I'm like now I mean if I lock up a property like I'm gonna
make a commitment honestly just to force myself to get better but I have a commitment to myself that I'm going to be closing the property
just just either I can flip it or I can get a good enough price or whatever it
is but for those ones I don't I put an inspection period on them and the only reason I'm I say that is because if I'm
not sure about an area like my first deal that I did out in Oakland County it was or not Oakland County I think it
was Wayne where's Inkster Wayne County Wayne County I didn't know it so I told the seller I walked a
little more caution hey cool yada yada I would like a a small inspection inspection period on this property I'm
not gonna bring you know I'm not doing the whole nine yards but you know I am new to this area and so
I would like secondhand opinion for my contractor I did that they were fine with it and
again I think it gauges their level of motivation because they're like man you can't do all that you know if you don't know what
you're looking at you know then you know you don't need to buy my property well then obviously I'm not that motivated they're looking for someone who wants to
buy their property and you know they don't need someone to buy their property so I don't know I mean sorry for not
having a quick answer but no that's fine you know if I look up a property it falls out of contracts because I don't know the area but because I don't know
the area I'm putting inspection period on it so it's not of his hard feelings with somebody and it doesn't tee them up to
think that it's a done deal once we sign the piece of paper like hey just so you know here I'm getting an inspection period which means I would love to move
forward I'm planning on moving forward but if I don't move forward I told you that there's a possibility I'm not moving forward
you know I wish that I could just do that on every property and close without inspection period and stuff like that but like I mean
their inspection periods are super normal man I mean yeah I mean 9 out of 10 Properties or whatever how long is
your marketing go through inspection period even cash deals sometimes yeah how long is your inspection period
I negotiate with that with the seller usually I my in my contract it
specifies unless otherwise said inspection period is 10 days that's just what mine says if
somebody moans or groans about it and we figure something else out but mine is just standard 10. and then that brings
me to another question is do you put down EMD I do but again an inspection
period I get right back okay but if I'm in Jersey County nine times out of ten
I'll lose an inspection period I will put a thousand dollars down okay 500 bucks usually yeah it's usually about 500 bucks
okay it's a hot deal and that seller like is getting multiple calls and stuff like I'll solidify my offer with
letting them know like I'll put a two you know put two three thousand dollars non-refundable bag meaning if I goof up
you're keeping my cash and find another investor so I will do that but that's because I'm in Genesee County and I know what I'm
looking at so I guess I teeter-totter right like I either you use my my advantage because
I'm in my own backyard and I Full Throttle it and tell them I'm gonna do ABC or if I don't know where I'm at unfortunately I walk a little more
caution but it doesn't hurt anybody's feelings because I already told them what I'm gonna do you know I realize my vantage point
here versus the guy in Oakland County or Wayne County who can just go for it and good for him I mean let's get more deals than I am but that's why I play in my
own backyard yeah so with that like for my contracts I
don't have an EMD that I put in there so you know so the inspection period is kind of like the length of the contract so yeah everyone does a little bit
different much at all really they don't care but yeah you know yeah now it's different when I'm
talking to an agent you know well yeah you gotta walk away yeah you got to walk how they walk otherwise you know there's
they're controlling the deal awesome so
you know is there any any last tips that you give for new wholesalers out there just trying to get started working your own back I mean unless you live in you know the middle of
nowhere but I mean work out your own backyard nobody knows it better than you do if you're not if you don't you
know actually want to close on properties I would at least put yourself and train your brain to be in the
mindset of an investor you know go out talk to investors learn the costs of private money so get
you know I mean eventually I'd imagine both of us want to eventually flip Properties or buy rentals ourselves so
why not start that practice now and start learning hard money lenders working with them or at least running
deals by them you know if they fit their criteria to lend on then you're getting better at
looking at knowing what a deal is and then from there just learn to have your your I call it our perfect
seller appointment but that's just you know setting the expectations up front yeah telling them how long you're going
to be on the call or whatever the conversation is going to be whether that's in person the agenda
slash results of the conversation and the opportunity to say no hey if
this isn't for you right now 97 of people I talk to it's not sorry if
it wouldn't be you know that's completely fine you know so yeah I stay in your own
backyard and and and you know you know start start reaching out to your lenders and your buyers or people who
are buying and start to become friends with them you know I mean it's give and take you know if those people are giving
you information and helping you out legitimately you know make sure you bring your deals
to them too in return and that's one thing is it one thing if you are doing your own backyard I'm
going to tell you the best list okay to go for all right on this is the 100
guaranteed best list to go for it's called a driving for dollars list yeah for sure go out there you know it's
distressed because you you view it you you you know that there's something going on whatever it is and you add that
to a driving for dollars list and sometimes those those deals those houses aren't on any lists or something right
exactly so they probably don't everything's paid like say it's in a
vacant property and but the owners he ate they're keeping up with the payments
they're keeping up the taxes they're keeping up with everything you know they have a lawn service that comes in maybe
once a month just enough to keep the city off of their Bay you know
whatever the case may be and you go in there and you see some whatever
things may go through that it looks distressed and you add it to your list guess what now you're the only person
contacting them for sure so but
I really really want to thank you for coming on here with me thanks for having me again yeah I really appreciate it the
one thing I like about bringing somebody out bringing somebody on that we've already talked with is we don't have to go through the origin story how you
started yeah it was good we had a lot of talk about so it was really cool I I really do appreciate it so yeah
everybody wants to hold me my number's there feel free give me a call awesome and then do you need help with any with
anything else be from our audience or anything like that at the moment no I
mean you know if you want to get a hold of me as far as getting my buyers list I'm like I said I'm Genesee County
a little bit of Oakland not to be rude but I also want to waste your time like you know I'm not
I'm not in Oakland I'm not in Wayne County I'm not in you know the thumb I'm not in Lansing I'm out in Saginaw
you know there's people out there but you know if if you're in your if you're in the same neighborhoods I'm in
I'd love to work with you so that's awesome so what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna bring it down Carson just hold
on and we'll talk in a minute so alright cool but I
awesome that is really good happy happy to have Carson here and
for anybody else you want to get on my buyers list you can go ahead and text me if you want a JV with me go ahead and
text me as well and I will we'll be able to get together the good thing is
on the next podcast we're going to have Ronald Walker with us
again and we will be talking more in depth on a lot of different things I
believe it's I think one of them is how to make 12 Grand in four weeks so
that's something that he wants to talk about so I'm happy to have him and stay tuned the next one will be in four
in two weeks next not next Monday but the Monday after so we will be
marking so keep a lookout for it and until next time let's all do deals together